{"content":{"sharePage":{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"61744096","dateCreated":"1364299961","smartDate":"Mar 26, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"mnewn","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/mnewn","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315367543\/mnewn-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/geojis-a2-ecosystems.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/61744096"},"dateDigested":1532144340,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Proposal to reduce old cars on Brunei roads","description":"*No this is not an ecosystem topic but I was doing some revision for AS and stumbled on this herendous idea that made me nearly bash my head inside out*
\n
\nLegislative Council (LegCo) member yesterday proposed to reduce old cars on Brunei roads
\n
\nHere are some quotes
\n"He said he was concerned that old vehicles, whose roadworthiness was dubious, create unnecessary congestion when they broke down."
\n
\n""If possible, the number of these old cars should be reduced based on the (fact) that most of the owners are foreign workers who use the cars for their daily work, (which gives rise to) high petrol consumption, air pollution and road congestion," he said." (sweeping statement?)
\n
\n"It will not cause an impact to sellers of brand new cars as (these) foreign workers (would not) be able to afford to buy new cars," he said.
\n
\n"However, luxury cars that fall into the vintage car category \u2014 such as Mercedes, BMWs, Chryslers and Lexus vehicles \u2014 should be exempted because they were valuable classic cars."
\n
\nI would also like to draw attention to this member of LegCo, Pehin Goh. He owns several GHK Motors, which sells Mitsubishi, Chrysler and owns several workshops around the country.
\n
\nMight this be more of a business strategy that actually tackling the problems mentioned above? And what are other options that can be taken to reduce it?
\n
\nHere's the full article (Warning: you might want to slit your wrist after reading it)
\nhttp:\/\/www.bt.com.bn\/legco\/2013\/03\/26\/proposal-reduce-old-cars-brunei-roads<\/a>","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"61392130","body":"The thing that pisses me off is how he goes on about old cars driven by foreign workers are causing congestion when the problem is obviously poor road planning, poor and reckless driving skills that causes accidents, and an overall lack of public transport. How are these foreign workers going to go to their jobs if they their Kijangs, the workhorse of the nation, would not be allowed on the roads and since there is no other option but to walk since public transport is almost non-existent.
\n
\nAnd the idea that old cars are a pile of junk is just ridiculous. I drive a 30 year old car and it runs just fine, in fact it could even be more reliable than the "cheap and cheerful" cars that are being produced. The idea of luxury is subjective and who is to tell what is luxurious and what is non-luxurious? One man's junk might be another man's treasure. A Kijang might be considered luxurious to those foreign workers.
\nP.S. Lexus and Chryslers are not valuable classic cars. He also gives the impression that he owns cars that are older than 25 years old.
\n
\nThe amount of sweeping and contradictory statements this guy has produced is just revolting.
\n"It will not cause an impact to sellers of brand new cars as (these) foreign workers (would not) be able to afford to buy new cars," How could they even afford brand new cars if they are paid by dirt? Furthermore, they do not need brand new cars because they are working here temporarily with a short term contract. Also, the reason why locals seem to be afford new cars is also down to the fact that bank loans are easily obtainable.
\n"If possible, the number of these old cars should be reduced based on the (fact) that most of the owners are foreign workers who use the cars for their daily work, (which gives rise to) high petrol consumption, air pollution and road congestion," he said." Many of these workers share and carpool these vehicles (how many times have we seen an old car that has been cramp to the absolute limit by foreign workers?) and blaming these workers for these problems is just absurd. The problem we have is the amount of people in each car is just 1 so the car to people ratio would be almost 1:1. Plus, the type of cars these people own are big, powerful cars that guzzle petrol like a bear and spew out pollutants like a volcano.","dateCreated":"1364302045","smartDate":"Mar 26, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"mnewn","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/mnewn","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315367543\/mnewn-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"63121770","body":"this is a bit late for a reply, but that was really well said.
\nI found it quite weird that he would be targeting the used cars industry as opposed to the new cars industry.. they should be making it harder for cars to get on the road in the first place.
\ni guess they could do it like singapore where they make you pay for all these certificates of entitlement that will cost 50% of the car itself, BUT then you would have to start paying everyone else in Brunei a higher salary. a more realistic solution would be to start improving the roads and public transport systems, and by that, i don't mean re-pave a stretch of the highway on the way to school.","dateCreated":"1369572921","smartDate":"May 26, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"briantan5","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/briantan5","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315365716\/briantan5-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"61368992","dateCreated":"1359904605","smartDate":"Feb 3, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"wikiworldissues","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/wikiworldissues","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1309082145\/wikiworldissues-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/geojis-a2-ecosystems.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/61368992"},"dateDigested":1532144340,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Which is worse?","description":"What do you consider to be the greatest danger to ecosystems; development or population growth and what do you recommend should be done about this?","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"60317060","body":"I think both go hand in hand. An increase in population will not only mean perhaps more areas being cleared for space, besides, it is estimated that the entire world's population could fit in the state of Texas so I don't believe space is the main issue. However, with population growth development will definitely be needed; development in technology to provide enough energy, development to provide more jobs... I guess both reasons could be argued but I think development is a greater danger than population growth.","dateCreated":"1360409753","smartDate":"Feb 9, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"RocioTG","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/RocioTG","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1339483069\/RocioTG-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60372250","body":"I think that population growth would be the greatest danger to ecosystems as opposed to development, this is because development is required in order to support a growing population. This may involve (as Rocio mentioned) development in technology, to provide sufficient resources (energy, food).","dateCreated":"1360647499","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"XingW","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/XingW","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60373474","body":"Although both factors go hand in hand, like Rocio said, I do think that development is a greater danger than population growth. Development will constantly take place whether it be through the innovation of new technology and industries, or, through improving the standards of living in remote areas. However, as the rate of development varies from one country to another, the dangers that different countries in different stages of development will have on ecosystems will also vary. For example, Indonesia may pose a larger threat to the ecosystem and it services in comparison to Brunei, as they require and need to make room for development through the clearing of rainforests for palm oil plantations.","dateCreated":"1360661435","smartDate":"Feb 12, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"nazihahS","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/nazihahS","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60378438","body":"I think population growth is the push and controlling factor for development. We development to accommodate our growing population, but the rate of development is affected by how fast the population grows. But I disagree with Rocio's quote stating we can fit the entire world's population in the state of Texas because we would have to be living in sardine cans if we did. Building on Nazihah's point, Yes, development will continuously take place but development is not necessarily a bad thing. Sustainable development that limits the impact of development is gaining momentum such as forest plantations are sprawling around countries which depend on their logging industry e.g. Malaysia. However, it does still damage the surrounding ecosystem but atleast it is just a small patch of land that is already damaged, compared to logging down an entire rainforest. This ensures a continuous supply of timber without compromising other areas of the rainforest.","dateCreated":"1360682569","smartDate":"Feb 12, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"mnewn","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/mnewn","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315367543\/mnewn-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60394692","body":"i agree with mmnewns point. i believe development cannot be address as vaguely as it has in this question. The different forms of development must be considered and with that the varying degree of impact it has on the environment. I think its also worth mentioning that without development the threat of population will continue to exist. In order to slow down population growth a saturation of development must first be achieved in that the development gap is shorten.","dateCreated":"1360714870","smartDate":"Feb 12, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"naufalicious","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/naufalicious","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315412546\/naufalicious-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60394700","body":"I agree that both factors go hand in hand but I think the greater danger to ecosystem is development rather than population growth. Development will constantly take place to accommodate the needs of the population. For example, palm oil is a major industry in Malaysia because it could bring a higher return than other oil products. Thus, big companies such as Sime Darby and Shin Yang develop these plantations for profit to improve the GDP of the country. Although it may link to population growth but it doesn't mean that the profit gained from selling the palm oil will reach back to the local community.","dateCreated":"1360714882","smartDate":"Feb 12, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"Fairuz.K","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Fairuz.K","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1332924350\/Fairuz.K-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60394772","body":"I agree with Marc's state that development is not a bad thing. population growth does contribute to development and development, to an extent, can be a danger to the ecosystem. it just depends on how they use their resources to develop the country's standards of living. developing countries are putting stress on the environment to develop such as Indonesia and Malaysia with their Palm Oil Plantations but if these countries were to learn a more sustainable way on developing then it wouldn't be much of a danger to the ecosystem.","dateCreated":"1360715055","smartDate":"Feb 12, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"Wajihah","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Wajihah","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60394946","body":"i agree with naufal's quote stating that without development the threat of population will continue to exist. As development occurs, people will have a better quality of life as education and healthcare will be improved. This means that the growth rate of population will decrease as there is a higher chance of living now and this will tackle the danger to ecosystems by population growth.","dateCreated":"1360715477","smartDate":"Feb 12, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"Asherashe","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Asherashe","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60403738","body":"I think Marc makes an interesting point that population is a controlling factor in development. I would also like to add that population growth is also the driving factor in the need for resources.
\n
\nFor example because of population growth, there has been a need for resources like palm oil or meat products. Since there is a demand for these resources, developing countries take the opportunity to develop their industries in these sectors due to global demands.
\n
\nBecause of their geographical suitability, Malaysia and Indonesia have decided to focus on the palm oil industry. Brazil on the other hand export meat from their cattle pastures. These industries have played a major part in the clearing of what are considered the last remaining rainforest ecosystems in the world.","dateCreated":"1360758707","smartDate":"Feb 13, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"Theooo","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Theooo","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60403986","body":"I agree with marc that since population is ever so growing rapidly that the need to accommodate this growth keeps on increasing. Therefore development is essential in doing so thus sacrifices needs to be made to meet the ever growing demand e.g shelter, food etc. Although this may mean cutting down the forest this can be done in a more ethical and sustainable way that does not compromise the needs of the future with the needs of the present such as using selective logging. As for theo's point regarding the geographical suitability i also agree that resources such as palm oil is needed and a country has to be able to look after its people thus in malaysia's care this would mean making use of their surroundings such as the use of palm oil which is in great demand as palm oil is used in many products around the world.","dateCreated":"1360759732","smartDate":"Feb 13, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"Rafi.Rahim","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Rafi.Rahim","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60462036","body":"ASh makes an excellent point, that is definitely worth thinking about. Going back to our work on population last year, we saw that although development initially results in increasing population size (as death rates fall due to improved standards of living) development can eventually lead to birth rates falling (people don't need to have so many children \/ more women want careers first...) and so population size stabalises (DTM).
\nSO...
\nCan we argue that development is necessary to help control population growth?
\nAND ...as many of you go on to say...
\nIsn't it the way we choose to develop (raise our standards of living) that needs to be addressed if we want to protect our ecosystems and benefit from their services in a more sustainable way.
\n
\nDevelopment is not the problem...population growth is and so are peoples attitudes\/unsustainable lifestyles. Consequently to protect our environment we need to focus on dealing with these issues. Do you agree?","dateCreated":"1360904018","smartDate":"Feb 14, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"wikiworldissues","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/wikiworldissues","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1309082145\/wikiworldissues-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"61238732","dateCreated":"1358232862","smartDate":"Jan 14, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"wikiworldissues","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/wikiworldissues","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1309082145\/wikiworldissues-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/geojis-a2-ecosystems.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/61238732"},"dateDigested":1532144340,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Kinabatangan Corridor of Life","description":"The Kinabatangan Corridor of Life will help Malaysia improve its HDI.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"59839088","body":"I think Clarissa brings up an important point that local villagers are benefiting from learning to read and write in English. However we must also understand the local people who are involved with the corridor of life only represent a very insignificant proportion of Malaysia's entire population. So would it really be improving Malaysia's literacy rate as a whole?","dateCreated":"1358852428","smartDate":"Jan 22, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"Theooo","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Theooo","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59839830","body":"It wouldn't be improving Malaysia's literacy rate as a whole, it might improve the literacy rate within the the state of Sabah.
\nI disagree with Fairuz as the money earned by the guides may be insufficient for further education. However, the young children are taught from an early age how to help the project whether at the tree nursery or as guides. Most of the children by the age of 13 would be taught how to identify different species of animals and plants how to communicate with visitors and volunteers. I think that preserving local knowledge could be beneficial to research projects. As part of the Heart of Borneo Project, there are projects in central Kalimantan where research is local community based to preserve the knowledge of the forest.","dateCreated":"1358859006","smartDate":"Jan 22, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"-clarissa","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/-clarissa","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59842482","body":"It is true that the literacy rate would perhaps improve on a local scale within the state of Sabah rather than a national scale with the whole of Malaysia's population. Perhaps the state of Sarawak could follow after Sabah, as it also situated on the island of Borneo. The benefits of forming a 'Corridor of Life' could benefit Sarawak, but could prove difficult as much of Sarawak's rainforest has been cut down for logging and oil palm plantations.","dateCreated":"1358866665","smartDate":"Jan 22, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"XingW","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/XingW","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59859842","body":"following theos point i think it is important to recognize that in terms of size and ability to generate economic activity the corridor of life is tiny compared to the size and economic growth lead by palm oil. particularly in the short run many improvements would have a more significant effect on the local area. whereas any revenue generated from palm oil is likely to have a broader effect. With the income generatewd from palm oil malaysia could iniate other beneficial schemes such as decentralizing its central cities to help close the development gap within itself","dateCreated":"1358897970","smartDate":"Jan 22, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"naufalicious","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/naufalicious","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315412546\/naufalicious-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59976346","body":"Rocio makes a good point, although it may not greatly affect the HDI greatly but instead it will improve the HDI in the long term. Although the GDP might fall due to a decrease in the output of palm oil with biodiversity increasing, it can be used for eco-tourism which will improve its GDP and be sustainable as well, thus also improving the reputation of the country which may even further improve the GDP of the country overall.","dateCreated":"1359351692","smartDate":"Jan 27, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"Rafi.Rahim","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Rafi.Rahim","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60008356","body":"I don't agree that HDI will benefit in the long term. Malaysia's economy is benefiting greatly from the presence of the palm oil industry and because KCoL is planning to increase the size of the forest area (which in turn decreases the land area covered by oil palm plantations) it may in fact potentially damage Malaysia's economy. Although there is also the possibility for eco tourism to develop, as naufal previously mentioned, it is unlikely to match the income generated from the palm oil.","dateCreated":"1359451016","smartDate":"Jan 29, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"Theooo","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Theooo","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60029268","body":"I agree that HDI will benefit in the long term as the protection of KCoL also protects the Kinabatangan River which is the longest river in Sabah (560 km). Doubtlessly a river is precious to us; a source of freshwater from the mountains to the sea. River development plays a big part in the community's social and economic activities. With a clean river that is not polluted by pesticides and herbicides used in palm oil plantation helps to bring communities together as recreational activities such as picnics, fishing, kayaking and other activities can be carried out. Inevitably, this can be one the catalyst for Malaysia to achieve the vision of 'One Malaysia' an idea for unity of different race created by the Malaysian Prime Minister. On another note agriculture is seen as the main income generator for a rural community. Though with a clean river and forests on either side of the river, this offers the opportunity for the growth of tourism (such as boat tours down the river) which then would generate incomes for the locals in terms of boat renting and being a tour guide.","dateCreated":"1359502971","smartDate":"Jan 29, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"SimHW","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/SimHW","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60031516","body":"I think that the Kinabatangan CoL will improve the lives of the villagers living along the lower Kinabatangan River, particularly those who are involved in MESCOT\/KOPEL. These locals get money from eco-tourism (increasing GDP\/capita), so they can afford schools and healthcare (increasing life expectancy and education attainment levels), thus HDI may be improved. However, I don't think it will increase the HDI of the whole Malaysian population. As the KCoL is considered to be small-scale, with only a small proportion of the Malaysian population involved, it will not have any significant impact on the rest of the Malaysians. And, as others have stated above, it will not be as economically beneficial as Malaysia is greatly dependent on oil palm plantation. Given that the lower Kinabatangan River (especially on the floodplain) is very fertile, the oil palm companies will lose their business.","dateCreated":"1359507216","smartDate":"Jan 29, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"amal.ab","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/amal.ab","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60031932","body":"I agree with Theo and Naufal, that the income and revenue derived from the KoL eco tourism will not match that derived from the Palm Oil plantations. Even though it is seen as a very unsustainable means by increasing GDP and therefore influencing HDI; it can be said that the revenue earned could be the driving force behind more sustainable and long term GDP, HDI and development goals for the country. Like in many MEDCs during the industrial revolution, there were also a large amount of unsustainable practices taking place for the benefit of development. Therefore, the use of palm oil plantations, especially with individual companies having a more sustainable image (due for KoL) will give Malaysia the money to develop their infrastructure, education, healthcare and tertiary industries; which, in the long run will result in an improved HDI.
\nThe KoL may improve the small scale HDI, for example the people directly involved with the KoL, such as those locals involved in KOPEL, but for the majority of Malaysian's the economic advantages of the KoL would not be felt as much, as the multiplier effect is not as large as it is for the Palm Oil revenue. However, it also depends on how the government will spend the money earned, if it is not spent on improving the quality of social amenities then there will be a minimal effect on improving the HDI of the country from both the KoL and the Palm Oil.","dateCreated":"1359508263","smartDate":"Jan 29, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"Rache.c","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Rache.c","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60035408","body":"TThe initial stage of this restoration involves replanting trees 50 meters on both sides of the river.
\nRegarding job losses on oil palm plantations, i think it would not be a significant number because generally speaking, 50 meters on both side of the river is not a lot of land for an oil palm plantation. And as Rocio mentioned, more jobs would be generated in other sectors e.g. tourism as tour guides in the KCoL. Furthermore, Maria mentioned about how this would reduce GDP of Malaysia, the land area cleared for this project is not significant enough to reduce GDP of Malaysia, maybe a tiny bit, but not significant enough; if it would affect the GDP, I don't think WWF would get the permission for this project.
\n
\nRegarding ecotourism and how it could boost GDP and improve HDI, ecotourism could not generate as much income as palm oil. But, ecotourism has a more significant and direct impact on a local scale rather than a national scale. The KCoL requires local knowledge about the area because they know the area better than others. This could in turn provide them jobs such as guides, explorers, botanist and others. Locals then would be payed wages and then can improve their lives.
\nHowever, this improvement would not be reflected in the HDI of Malaysia because the people working for KCoL would be to insignificant. Maybe in the longterm it would show, but definately not at the short term.","dateCreated":"1359516784","smartDate":"Jan 29, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"mnewn","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/mnewn","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315367543\/mnewn-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60135776","body":"So the general opinion seems to be that KCoL will benefit local people, but won't have a significant effect either positively or negatively on a national scale in terms of development.
\nHow might the scheme affect future generations?","dateCreated":"1359904326","smartDate":"Feb 3, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"wikiworldissues","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/wikiworldissues","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1309082145\/wikiworldissues-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60394802","body":"Perhaps in the long term it will have a positive effect on a national level as quality of air improves but this would be a very indirect effect and it will depend on other factors as well.","dateCreated":"1360715122","smartDate":"Feb 12, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"RocioTG","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/RocioTG","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1339483069\/RocioTG-lg.jpg"}}],"more":11}]},{"id":"61004180","dateCreated":"1354612410","smartDate":"Dec 4, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"wikiworldissues","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/wikiworldissues","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1309082145\/wikiworldissues-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/geojis-a2-ecosystems.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/61004180"},"dateDigested":1532144341,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Development v Conservation","description":"Does the picture (Week 14: assignment page) provide a fair representation?","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"58991344","body":"I agree with Clarissa that the picture does not show a fair representation of development. However, in order for countries to develop, they may have to cut some of their forests down. They may not want to control the amount which they cut down as developed countries in Europe have cut down the majority of their own forests in order to develop.","dateCreated":"1355034109","smartDate":"Dec 8, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"-fedora","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/-fedora","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59010882","body":"The image, on face value alone, represents the workers carrying out the deforestation as the main culprits. I would say this is wrong. Corporations and governments benefit greatly from the logging and clearing of forests and because of this, the image is wrong.","dateCreated":"1355115981","smartDate":"Dec 9, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"QT_Haruni","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/QT_Haruni","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315279724\/QT_Haruni-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59010928","body":"I do agree with @QT_Haruni to some extent because some people may see the workers as being 'bad' when they are only carrying out their jobs in order to gain income. Similar to what Mattias Klum had said in his video, most of the developing countries that are undergoing rapid deforestation are suffering from immense corruption so it is mostly the government and corporation's fault rather than the workers themselves. So, is the severity of deforestation dependent on the political state of a country?","dateCreated":"1355116337","smartDate":"Dec 9, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"nazihahS","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/nazihahS","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59010962","body":"I believe the picture is more based towards the need to develop. It may suggest that some developing countries may have no choice but to cut down their forests in order to develop socially and economically for the greater good of the population. The clearance of the area may not matter to the country, or that they may not have any sense of control over it, just as long as they are developing.","dateCreated":"1355116666","smartDate":"Dec 9, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"ynnedenny","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ynnedenny","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1347279415\/ynnedenny-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59011004","body":"@nazihahS
\n
\nTo say that the severity of deforestation is dependent on the political state of the country would be too simplistic of an answer. Although the politics has a significant aspect in countries, economy plays the integral role within a country. To put it simply, money makes the world go round and this can definitely be applied to the image. Yes, workers are not to blame as Mattias Klum states BUT adversities many workers face stem from a deeper problem being that the government\/corporations\/state economy have not found a sufficient way other than deforestation to supply jobs to the nation as well as allowing for financial stability and growth.
\nIn summary, as widely said, 'money is the root of all evil', yet there can be other ways for a country to gain, ways that do not involve deforestation.
\nWhat viable alternate methods to industrial growth are there which will allow for sustainability?","dateCreated":"1355116911","smartDate":"Dec 9, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"QT_Haruni","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/QT_Haruni","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315279724\/QT_Haruni-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59011012","body":"i agree with denny's statement as developing countries have other things to worry about socially and economically which might be more significant than the environmental impact. also, as people in developing countries are perceived as less educated, they might also be unaware of the environmental impact it can have both locally and globally which they might regret in the future.","dateCreated":"1355116953","smartDate":"Dec 9, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"Asherashe","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Asherashe","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59011060","body":"I also agree with ynnedenny's statement concerning the fact that some developing countries may have no choice but to undergo deforestation in order to develop - however, the need to develop needs to be looked at in the long term, meaning if the country develops economically well enough by cutting down trees and such, in the future, they may find themselves short on resources - other than that, oppritunities for tourism attraction, leisure activities and so on. Therefore, even though deforestation may be vital for developing countries to improve economically, they need to balance everything out to ensure they are not cut short in 20-30 years.","dateCreated":"1355117348","smartDate":"Dec 9, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"ProfessorHA","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ProfessorHA","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1321197823\/ProfessorHA-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"59476012","body":"@nazihah
\ni agree to a certain extent as well with harun, as the workers and the corporate leaders should look like the 'bad' ones. however, it could be possible that the whole left side isn't really 'bad' at all. it could be that the whole left side of the picture is actually a pioneering corporation driving development for low-cost housing or even to lay down vital infrastructure to improve people's quality of life. if you look at it that way, this would have been the scene if we started building cities with our current level of technology in untouched land.","dateCreated":"1357382007","smartDate":"Jan 5, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"briantan5","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/briantan5","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315365716\/briantan5-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60135960","body":"Good point Brian..like some of the new development areas in Singapore. (Punggol ecotown for instance?)","dateCreated":"1359905302","smartDate":"Feb 3, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"wikiworldissues","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/wikiworldissues","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1309082145\/wikiworldissues-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60136000","body":"...and following on from ProfessorHA point....
\n
\nIf the environment is damaged so that it can no longer provide us with valuable ecosystem services won't development be compromised in the term? Is there any evidence that this is already happening?","dateCreated":"1359905421","smartDate":"Feb 3, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"wikiworldissues","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/wikiworldissues","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1309082145\/wikiworldissues-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60317152","body":"I believe it would be as ecosystem services include provision services such as: fresh water, food, medicinal plants. If species of plants become extinct the ability to develop new medicine and cures for diseases will be limited this in the long term could affect productivity of labour, cost of firms, firms' competitiveness which at the same time will compromise development","dateCreated":"1360411887","smartDate":"Feb 9, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"RocioTG","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/RocioTG","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1339483069\/RocioTG-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60372118","body":"I agree with Rocio as it would be damaging to the environment. But not only will the environment be affected but also factors such as security, necessary materials in life, health and social relations. Social relations is interesting as ecosystems provide cultural services such as aesthetic, educational and even spiritual services, these all link to access to clean air and water as well as social cohesion and mutual respect between environment and humans. Perhaps with development these services are gradually lost and in turn many of the aspects of wellbeing are lost as well.","dateCreated":"1360646312","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"XingW","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/XingW","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":9}]},{"id":"60349266","dateCreated":"1348881526","smartDate":"Sep 28, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"wikiworldissues","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/wikiworldissues","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1309082145\/wikiworldissues-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/geojis-a2-ecosystems.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/60349266"},"dateDigested":1532144342,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Biodiversity","description":"\u201cLEDCs cannot afford the luxury of preserving their biodiversity and have to put their development needs first\u201d","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"56940776","body":"In some of the less economically developed countries, they believe that the benefits gained from utilizing their primary resources to generate income for the country, allowing the country to develop, outweigh the negative impact that this may have on its environment and biodiversity. An example of this is China, which is the largest producer and consumer of coal in the world, producing over 3050 million tons in 2009. China\u2019s booming economy has lead to huge demand for power. The only way to sustain its development and grow its economy is by exploiting its own resources. The power industry itself also happens to provide approximately 5 million jobs, helping to reduce unemployment in a nation with a population of over 1.3 billion people. It is felt that once development is advanced and there is significant economic growth and good social stability, the country can afford to invest and focus on preserving and protecting its biodiversity by introducing policies to preserve its environment in a sustainable way.","dateCreated":"1349098428","smartDate":"Oct 1, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"maria276","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/maria276","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"56942848","body":"A recent research done by Nature Conservancy showed that preserving biodiversity may be the goal of conservationists and environmental activists but for the poor, it is simply just the biomass they need. An example for the result is that for a poor fisherman to break out of the poverty route all he needs is to catch more fish not more kinds of fish. Therefore instead of conserving pristine areas of LEDC, MEDC should use the money they have and regenerate areas that are already degraded as when you restore degraded lands, you effectively bring back the biodiversity thus increasing the biomass.","dateCreated":"1349100934","smartDate":"Oct 1, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"SimHW","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/SimHW","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"56944144","body":"There is no reason why a developing nation cannot meet their developing needs without having to preserve their biodiversity. Biodiversity is crucial to the reduction of poverty in developing countries due to the basic goods and ecosystem services that it provides. All this includes provision of food and medicine, soil formation, air quality, climate regulation and regulation of water supply and quality. Biodiversity is also integral to key development sectors such as agriculture, forestry, fishing and as already mentioned by most, tourism.
\n
\nThe aims of development don\u2019t just stop at trying to reduce poverty; environmental sustainability is also a fundamental development objective. There is a close link between biodiversity and development: Biodiversity helps sustain development, and development will have an impact on biodiversity, be it positive or negative. Biodiversity doesn\u2019t contribute directly to all sectors of development; however, sustainable development for a country would not be achieved if biodiversity within a country were to be compromised.
\n
\nIn Colombia, they are trying to attract transnational corporations (TNCs) which are biotechnology based into the country through sustainable use of their biodiversity in hope that they can help to develop and produce natural ingredients for food, health and cosmetic industries among others.","dateCreated":"1349103077","smartDate":"Oct 1, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"Theooo","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Theooo","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"57004940","body":"I agree with the points above. Biodiversity will not only allow developing countries to make money but it will allow them to save money as well.
\nAs mentioned before, the biodiversity is important for tourism, in places like Kenya the biodiversity is the main driver of their economy (tourism from safaris, animal reserves)
\nHowever, I can see why it might be difficult for developping countries to preserve their biodiversity as their main priority is to quickly develop economically in order to keep their population from starving, in some extreme cases.
\nPerhaps, a financial aid from developed countries will allow LEDCs to develop at a pace that also enables them to save their biodiversity.","dateCreated":"1349246656","smartDate":"Oct 2, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"RocioTG","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/RocioTG","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1339483069\/RocioTG-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"58650968","body":"There should be no excuse for developing countries to not protect biodiversity. Biodiversity can be protected through tourism. Tourism does not to be a luxurious industry such as places in Dubai and Macau.
\n
\nInstead it could use its landscape and biodiversity as asset and resource for tourism. In Costa Rica, bananas, pineapples and coffee exports were one of the main exports for the country before tourism took off in the late 1980s and has since became one of the fastest growing economy in the country, attracting 2.2 million visitors in 2011 and contributing to 5.5% of the country's GDP in 2010. It provided jobs for locals, it was responsible for 13.3% of direct and indirect employment in 2005 and helped contribute to reducing poverty by 3% according to a report by ECLAC (United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean). The country has even decided to be 100% carbon neutral by 2021 and in 2012, 90% of electricity is generated by renewable resources, reducing the need for oil\/gas power plants which contributes to air pollution.
\n
\nCosta Rica is now a popular ecotourism and leisure destination through their system of natural parks which covers 23.4% of the country, the largest in the world as a percentage of a country's territory. Eventhough Costa Rica only covers 0.3% of the world's landmass, it is estimated to contain 5% of the world's biodiversity. The country also has volcanoes, such as the Aravel Volcano, and beaches both on the Pacific Ocean and Carribean Sea.
\n
\nMany hotels have been built in the tropical rainforest but one of the most famous was an old Boeing 727 fuselage, salvaged, reused and refurbished into a hotel. There has been controversey with hotel siting and construction as some of them have trespassed protected zones and a few development of resorts have caused severe negative impact on the environment by dumping waste into coral reefs and mangroves as well as dumping untreated sewages into rivers that flow into towns that are further downstream. Furthermore, the rapid growth of tourism has led to sex tourism in the country, up to 10% of tourist engage in sex tourism in Costa Rica. Bear in mind Costa Rica is still considered a developing country and loopholes in the law exist in abundance as it is difficult to main law and order in a developing country.
\n
\nMethods that are mentioned above can be costly to maintain and build but it would never be as costly as casinos in Macau or 7* hotels in Dubai. Like anything else, it has to be done sustainably if not it would do more damage in the long run. However, in order for tourism industry to strife, the country must first be perceived as a safe.","dateCreated":"1354065032","smartDate":"Nov 27, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"mnewn","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/mnewn","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315367543\/mnewn-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60402180","body":"In many developing countries they are either too corrupt or simply do not have the funds for habitat preservation. However, because biodiversity is globally linked and cannot be isolated by geographical boundaries, international donors and organizations such as Conservation International, and the World Wildlife Fund have begun to develop strategies intended to demonstrate incentive to preserve biodiversity. Bioprospecting is the search for compounds in animals and plants that might lead to new or improved drugs and commercial products. Non-timber forest products are resources, such as jungle rubber in Indonesia and Brazil nuts in Brazil, which have commercial value and can be exploited without destroying the forest. Ecotourism involves the preservation of natural areas to attract travelers. They all serve the dual purpose of alleviating poverty and sustaining natural resources. The hard part will be changing the attitudes and behaviors of locals, which often do not see how the conservation of biodiversity is in their best interest.","dateCreated":"1360741675","smartDate":"Feb 12, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"maria276","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/maria276","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60403630","body":"I strongly agree with Maria. I feel that even if some developing countries wanted to conserve their biodiversity, it would still simply be too difficult as corruption seems to be natural in developing countries such as Malaysia. however, i think developing countries would benefit greatly from utilizing their natural resources instead of conserving it for tourism. true, exploiting tropical rainforests for timber will inevitably disrupt ecosystems, but it will also be able to provide high income yields, relatively short term- which is what tourism cannot do.
\n
\ntourism attracts investment and spending while still conserving the environment- the preferred way for developed countries. however, it is harder to convince developing countries to follow this path of development as the now developed countries had chosen to exploit their resources in the past as well, despite them now acknowledging their mistakes.
\ninstead of developing only through sustainable means such as tourism to conserve the rainforests, we should instead focus on ways to make the utilization of the rainforest more sustainable, as it is clear that we cannot stop the exploitation of rainforests.","dateCreated":"1360757988","smartDate":"Feb 13, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"briantan5","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/briantan5","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315365716\/briantan5-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60405486","body":"I agree with Brian that the focus should be on how to make the utilization of the rainforest more sustainable. As stated before, developing countries are following the principles of development which the developed countries had undertook - which had heavily involved the exploitation of the natural resources such as the forests.
\nHowever, developing countries should also be able to see how the exploitation of forests can cause issues for a developed country as well. Therefore, the developing countries should be able to see what the value biodiversity is in the modern world and what issues are created by exploiting such biodiversity. However, developing countries may be waiting for solutions to be found by developed countries rather than taking the initiative and discovering new solutions which are most likely forms of 'sustainable development'.","dateCreated":"1360764869","smartDate":"Feb 13, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"QT_Haruni","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/QT_Haruni","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315279724\/QT_Haruni-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60461632","body":"So is it in the richer countries interests for the LEDCs to conserve their biodiversity and, if so, how might richer countries make it financially worthwhile for the LEDCs to move away from deforestation as a means of increasing their GNI.","dateCreated":"1360902586","smartDate":"Feb 14, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"wikiworldissues","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/wikiworldissues","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1309082145\/wikiworldissues-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60464292","body":"it is definitely in the richer countries interests for them to conserve their biodiversity. 25% of western pharmacuticals are derived from rainforest ingredients, and in terms of tree species biodiversity, rainforests are also effectively one of the world's greatest carbon sinks, absorbing up to 18% of all carbon dioxide added by fossil fuels. in this way, i guess developed countries not only want, but need LEDC's to conserve their biodiversity\/rainforest.
\nI think developed countries could convince LEDC's to move away from deforestation by providing aid to alternative industry, such as tourism, where the developed countries would introduce package holidays or cheap air fares to these countries. by advertising and making it easier for the country's citizens to travel, it will definitely improve the economy of said country through tourism.
\nbig countries like USA could possibly improve relations with LEDC's and eventually admit them as states, such as in 2004 with the Philippines (Philippines is not actually a state of USA), however this is extremely unlikely.","dateCreated":"1360919010","smartDate":"Feb 15, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"briantan5","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/briantan5","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315365716\/briantan5-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60505178","body":"Richer countries are interested for LEDCs to conserve their biodiversity because many countries, as briantan5 stated, rely on biodiversity and the environment. But, we will not know if their intentions are to prevent competition from LEDCs, which can provide cheaper products than developed countries. It is also hard for LEDCs to develop while conserving their environment so it will take a lot of convincing and aid from develop countries.","dateCreated":"1361152373","smartDate":"Feb 17, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"mnewn","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/mnewn","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1315367543\/mnewn-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"60508408","body":"I agree with @briantan5 and @mnewn, It seems that richer countries would much prefer LEDC's (developing) countries to keep their biodiversity allowing the richer countries to take advantage whilst not having to go through the same biodiversity conservation - advantages such as having pharmacutical uses - as @briantan5 stated.
\n
\nRicher countries should make things a little more fair with the LEDC's conserving their biodiversity, for example, they may begin a project of some sort in which richer countries give or lend money to the poorer countries in proportion to the amount of land of rain forest they are conservating? This will not only make it more fair, but will also motivate the poorer countries to save their biodiversity as well as grow as a result of the money borrowed.","dateCreated":"1361164803","smartDate":"Feb 17, 2013","userCreated":{"username":"ProfessorHA","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ProfessorHA","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1321197823\/ProfessorHA-lg.jpg"}}],"more":12}]}],"more":false},"comments":[]},"http":{"code":200,"status":"OK"},"redirectUrl":null,"javascript":null,"notices":{"warning":[],"error":[],"info":[],"success":[]}}